Interview

Chris Bigelow and Benson Parkinson

Q. Tell us how Irreantum got started.

BP: I see Irreantum as largely an outgrowth of AML-List, the Association for Mormon Letters's e-mail discussion list, which I've been operating for the past five years. We ran the online AML-List Magazine there for several years and developed a number of writers that have gone on to publish elsewhere. The first issue of Irreantum was more or less a guest issue of the AML's old paper newsletter by AML-List columnists and subscribers. But I knew that Levi Peterson, the newsletter editor, was looking to retire and that our writers and editors might turn into a permanent staff. Chris Bigelow, then an Ensign editor, was the one to really make it happen. He'd been doing small magazines as a hobby since his teen years, when he got the subscription for one of his fantasy gaming magazines up over a thousand. He served as managing editor for the first issue or two of Irreantum, and I did my best to lie low and keep AML-List going, which was running me ragged. But I was in on all the early Irreantum meetings, and he and I talked extensively about content and tone and how to promote the magazine and reach the large potential LDS audience that reads literary fiction but isn't currently interested in Mormon literature. Plus I'd help with editing tasks and drum up submissions to fill in gaps, and before long he asked me to come on as co-managing editor. It's kind of been a joint production since, with Chris the first among equals.

CB: I would add that I have been wanting to do some kind of Mormon literary magazine for quite some time. While I was at BYU, I thought it would be fun to do a Provo-based literary magazine called Provocation (get it?). I sat in on the last few editorial meetings and smothered-burrito gorgefests of the now-defunct Wasatch Review International, but I got the feeling the magazine had already peaked and was struggling to find good stuff to print, so I declined an informal invitation to take over as managing editor of that literary magazine. However, the ideas floating around on AML-List seemed exciting and varied and deep enough that I was delighted to take the lead role in channeling AML-List's strengths into a printed magazine. Indeed, all six of the staff editors were recruited through AML-List, and many of the reviews and essays first run on AML-List before reaching print in Irreantum.

Q. Irreantum seems to be more popular in orientation than what the AML has done in the past. How did that come about?

BP: Well, AML-List has had a more popular orientation too. The AML held readings from time to time, mainly of academic writers, but mostly sponsored literary criticism. My motivation for getting involved with the list was to try to create an audience for the kind of fiction I was writing, which tried to reach that great untapped mainstream LDS readership with character-driven, spiritually-informed writing that was nevertheless accessible. We quickly learned that there are all kinds of approaches to LDS literature, lots of kinds of readers, lots of vigorous thinking and writing going on (the whole pulsing world of LDS science fiction and fantasy was my biggest personal discovery). Nor were they talking to each other. Since I was moderating, it wouldn't have been appropriate for me to promote my kind over anyone else's, but I felt if I could create an atmosphere where all could come together and feed off each other's energy, we'd all grow, and what was good for one was good for all.

Jerry Johnston, who's long been a champion of popular LDS writing, came on the AML board soon after, and he and others made efforts to nudge the AML out of its ivory tower. We knew that the AML membership was aging and our numbers were shrinking---AML-List quickly surpassed its parent organization in subscribers. Finally, under Neal Kramer's leadership and after a lot of background discussion, we held a day-long retreat to hammer out the AML's direction. There we decided, while we need to keep our scholarly moorings, we would amend the bylaws and add as one of our purposes to promote the interests of LDS readers. Soon after that, we launched our annual writers' conference and Irreantum.

CB: Although I personally hold a master's degree in English from BYU, I do not traffic much with heavy-duty academics (speaking of the field, not the people). I don't think I would have been drawn into doing Irreantum through merely attending AML scholarly conferences, but AML-List had the right balance of academics with more popular, commercial, and down-to-earth concerns. My personal interest in Mormon literature has to do with breaking Mormon characters and themes into the national literary scene, picking up on the cultural momentum started on the national scene by writers such as Tony Kushner and Walter Kirn, both of whom have enjoyed critical and commercial success with Mormon content. I am interested in things that sell and entertain but retain literary value and interest. I guess you would call that category "commercial literary," reflected on the national scene by award-winning, best-selling authors such as John Updike, Margaret Atwood, John Irving, Anne Tyler, and Philip Roth. My deepest hope for Irreantum is that the Mormon John Updike (or fill in the blank with your favorite nationally- successful, literary writer) might be nurtured and discovered--- or at least vigorously explored and appreciated---by the magazine.

Q: Where do you see Irreantum fitting in the literary landscape?

CB: The mailing list I'm trying to pull together reflects where I hope Irreantum will fit into the literary landscape.

First of all, I am aggressively recruiting any national editors, agents, journalists, scholars, authors, or other literary-minded, influential people who have shown any interest in Mormon literature, people ranging from Harold Bloom to Tony Kushner to Jana Riess to Anne Sowards. I would like to see Irreantum become the premiere source for information about, analysis of, and actual samplings of the best that is available along Mormon lines. I personally believe that Mormonism represents the next American subculture that can be profitably mined by national publishers in the same way that American subgroups in the past have been mined, ranging from Jewish to Catholic to Southern to African-American to Asian. As Mormonism rises in cultural heat---and the forthcoming Olympics certainly won't hurt---I want literary people to turn to Irreantum to get plugged in. I want New York agents to be thinking, "Gee, Mormon stuff is starting to sell. Where can I find some good author leads and insights into that scene?"

At the same time, we are mailing sample copies and soliciting subscriptions from LDS-market publishing professionals, people who work at or write for companies such as Deseret Book. The influence I hope Irreantum has on them is that they consider new ways to approach Mormon literature and begin to believe in a more sophisticated, demanding audience that won't put up with a lot of the saccharine, preachy, antiseptic stuff that passes for Mormon fiction today. I take the large LDS-specific market very seriously, and I have even put some time into placing copies of Irreantum into LDS bookstores nationwide, in hopes that we can attract and influence some rank-and-file readers to start expecting more from Mormon literature published by LDS-market companies.

Just as authors such as Orson Scott Card and Anne Perry publish novels in both the national and LDS markets simultaneously, I believe these two main goals can be pursued at the same time in Irreantum. Indeed, to some extent the two co-managing editors embody these two goals: I am nationally oriented, and Benson is LDS oriented (Benson calls these two emphases the "missionary" and "Deseret" schools of literature). I hope that anyone with any interest in novels, stories, poems, plays, and films by, for, or about Mormons can find a lot of stimulating reading in Irreantum.

BP: To expand a bit on Deseret school writing, if your goal is for Mormon art to leaven American culture the way Jewish and Catholic art have, you've got to have something richer than roadshows at home. Adopting the broader culture's discourse can be treacherous business. Do so too thoroughly and you never speak from your own heart. Do it halfway and you sound watered down. We need to develop our own voice. Irreantum can help there. Now is a good time. Mormonism is ascendant. As Kristen Randle pointed out, the Mormon market is a national market, and potentially an international one. Nor is it just a matter of voice. Great literature has to be about something. Robert Dutcher said he thought it was a mistake to remove Mormon elements from a story and that the more specific the characters are, the more universal the story. I agree, but beyond that, the most powerful moments in life all have religious components: birth, death, coming of age, marriage, sin, redemption, finding your way in life. Our literature's got to embrace that if it's going to have any of that power.

Q. I understand your editorial staff is quite spread out geographically. How do you keep things running? CB: Although Irreantum is a traditional printed magazine, it is put together completely by e-mail. The editorial staff is scattered from California to Utah to Wisconsin to Atlanta to New York City. All collaborative work is done via e-mail, and all text is shuttled back and forth via e-mail. The magazine is so reliant on e-mail that we have a policy of not accepting submissions except in electronic form, so they can be easily passed back and forth in the course of editorial review and preparation.

BP: It occurred to me a little while ago we're into our second year and have never run a story or article we didn't receive by e-mail. The magazine is typeset electronically, of course, and we've recently switched to a DocuTech print process, so we go from disk to final output in a single step. I suppose we're about as paperless as you can get a print magazine. The printer keeps our files on a tape we rented and prints back issues for the same price as the originals, even in small quantities.

CB: As co-managing editors, Ben and I are about equally involved in managing the magazine's overall vision, organization, and approach. Ben acts as our first reader of material gathered by department editors and works with them as needed to refine material. I pick up most of the back end stuff, such as paginating, line editing, and getting stuff ready to go to the designer and press. I also do a lot with the publishing end, such as doing promotional mailings, trying to round up retailers and advertisers, and applying for grants available to nonprofit organizations such as the AML.

As far as our professional backgrounds, I work as a book and magazine editor and writer and hold a bachelor's degree in professional writing from Emerson College in Boston and a master's degree in creative writing from BYU. Ben works as an editor, has published two novels and other books, moderates AML-List, and holds a degree in comparative literature from BYU.

Our all-volunteer staff includes a lot of good people with professional-level talent. Fiction editor Tory Anderson has worked for book publishers and was founder and managing editor of Wasatch Review International. Photographer Susan Barnson is a stay-at-home mom with degrees in photography and English. Poetry editor Harlow Clark holds degrees in English and is a writer. AML-List highlights editor Jonathan works as an educational writer and holds degrees in English. Publishing news editor Kent Larsen works for a New York book publisher and runs several Mormon-related e-mail discussion groups and websites. Book review editor Jana Bouck Remy, a stay-at-home mom, has written columns and coordinated book reviews for AML-List for several years. Essay editor Edgar C. Snow Jr., a lawyer, has been a columnist for AML-List and recently published a book of humorous essays with Signature Books.

Q. How has the response to Irreantum been.

BP: Well, we're still small, but what buzz we hear has been good. We've certainly helped the AML out.

CB: Membership in the AML has almost doubled since we made Irreantum a benefit of membership, and we are now poised to launch a new marketing effort offering Irreantum subscriptions independent of AML membership. We have been receiving enough worthwhile material for publishing by having our editors track down writers, but we have been disappointed so far by the lack of unsolicited submissions and letters to the editor responding to things in the magazine. As far as retail sales of the magazine go, we placed copies in about 20 stores, but it's hard to know how well they are selling unless retailers return unsold copies, which several have done.

Q: What are your goals for the future of Irreantum?

CB: Besides what I've already talked about, I hope Irreantum reaches 1,000 circulation within a year or so. I hope we can upgrade to nicer printing and get more of a bookstore presence, perhaps circulation in some of the national bookstore chains that carry other literary magazines. I hope to see people writing provocative reviews, essays, and fiction just because they are stimulated by Irreantum, and want to get more aggressively involved in Mormon literature as a cultural movement. I hope to see Irreantum serve as a catalyst for a new blossoming of Mormon literary accomplishment and outreach, harnessing the strengths and energies of the AML, AML-List, and the myriad devoted readers, writers, editors, and publishers of Mormon literature.

BP: I've felt most Mormon intellectual movements either started out off-kilter or moved that way. I'd like Irreantum to be in the middle of a broad-based cultural movement from the heart of Mormonism. Early on our editors decided to focus on mainstream rather than popular or academic because that's what most the people making the magazine were interested in. For myself at least, I carry it a step further. I want Irreantum to give broad coverage and support to every sort of Mormon literature and to promote all kinds. But my strongest personal interest is in what might be called the literature of Zion. That implies consecration, serving with all one's heart, might, mind, and strength---and to do that you have to integrate those four qualities instead of them always heading off in different directions or doing battle with each other. For a lot of us, Mormon art is always going to be about that integration. And I want Irreantum to reflect that too.

I believe the 1,000 mark is reachable in the near futre. Like I say, I'd like to see Irreantum help Mormondom define its voice. To do that the magazine needs to find just the right editorial stance and drum up lots and lots of excellent submissions. And it needs to reach more than 1,000 subscribers. But the potential exists. There are no other LDS literary magazines in the arena right now. Mormon mainstream fiction, that is, fiction aimed at educated, faithful LDS readers, is making significant inroads. There are great numbers of just this sort of reader out there. Mormons value education, almost by definition. Most educated Mormons I know do not read LDS fiction because they don't feel it is aimed at them. I'd like to see Irreantum grow big enough to help that audience define itself. When it does, I believe it will at least match the audiences for LDS young adult, romance, and doctrinal writing, and it just might dwarf them.